Memory Alpha:Pages for deletion/Reset button episode
This is a page to discuss the suggestion to delete " ". *If you are suggesting a page for deletion, add your initial rationale to the section "Deletion rationale". *If you want to discuss this suggestion, add comments to the section "Discussion". *If a consensus has been reached, an administrator will explain the final decision in the section "Admin resolution". In all cases, please make sure to read and understand the deletion policy before editing this page. Talk:Reset button episode Not sure about deletion yet, but if we keep it the title may need to be changed to something else that isn't based on a fan-created term.--31dot 18:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC) :Bottle shows? A known thing done lots in Hollywood. Reset episodes? Strictly speaking, almost every TOS episode falls into that category. Most of the first two seasons of TNG too. Anytime you're not doing a serial type series, then each episode cannot really drive character development and suchnot. Sadly. -- sulfur 18:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC) ::A Reset episode, to me, sounds more like an episode where everything that happened in the episode was undone at the end rather than continuing a story. (which means the episode never happened). We even have a list already in : ::*''This episode – along with TNG: "Cause and Effect", "Yesterday's Enterprise", DS9: "The Visitor", "Visionary", "Children of Time", VOY: "Non Sequitur", "Year of Hell", "Year of Hell, Part II", "Timeless", and ENT: "E²", as well as the entirety of the Temporal Cold War arc – form a genre of episode that some fans called the "Bad Dream" or "Reset Button".'' ::So I don't really think this hurts but a better name would be one we could get that's more common or maybe a production name? — Morder (talk) 18:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC) Maybe "Reset timeline episode"?(If we want to go the renaming route.)--31dot 18:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC) ::I'll go with that one since it matches more-or-less what actually happens. Where's Sussman to tell us what he called those episodes... — Morder (talk) 19:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC) :::If we really want to keep this and rename it....Actually I've never heard about this term before and I am not sure if we should keep it. Bottle show is a term which is widely known across the television shows. – Tom 19:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC) ::::Fan-created terminology is one thing, but a fan-created definition is something completely different. Unless there is one definition that everyone can agree on, preferably one we can add a proper citation for, this is just leading into disaster. As one can see, there's already disagreement between the current article and the two alternative definitions given here. ;) ::::For example, I personally wouldn't consider the whole of to be "Reset-Button-style". The Borg attack still happened, and the hero crew still is aware of the 2063 events that have been "reset". Actually, thinking of it, nothing has really been reset. Personnel killed during the Borg attack stayed dead afterwards, and some events even were referenced again later during Trek's narrative ( ). Likewise, TOS episodes often kept the "status quo", but the universe seldomly was "reset" to a state where events from an episode didn't happen. The same is true for the TCW - among other things, NX-01 was launched early because of the TCW. While the TCW was later conveniently forgotten from a storytelling POV, I don't think it was ever "reset". -- Cid Highwind 20:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC) ::Agreed about First Contact. I would consider only episodes that never happened to fall into a reset category - Year of Hell is one because, while the episode took place everything was undone and forgotten at the end. Because of the differences in definition it would help to have a production source for what type of episode Year of Hell and similar episodes are. — Morder (talk) 20:29, 29 July 2009 (UTC) :::::Page creator suggests definition: Many of my friends in Sweden have been talking about "Reset Button Episodes" and I thought the terminology was universal and was surprised there was no page made. When I now understand it is not universal (yet), I suggest the following definition: 1) At the end, it never happened. 2) No one remembers. This definition makes VOY Year of Hell and DS9 The Visitor examples of this type of story, but excludes VOY Futures End and DS9 Past Tense.--Swedish Doctor 22:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC) :::::Please help: :::::* I'm not fully up to date with Temporal Cold War episodes. Please feel free to add them in the proper category! Please also note that not every episode featuring time travel belongs in this section, only the ones in which a timeline is made to never having existed. :::::* Maybe some more TNG episodes could be added as well. :::::* English is not my native tongue. If my grammar needs correction, please help yourself! :::::* I'd like to change the title to "Reset Button" but don't know how to do it. :::::* Likewise, I'd also like a redirection from "Bad Dream". :::::--Swedish Doctor 20:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Even with the changes since initial discussion here, I'm still not really convinced about all of this. What we need, at least, is some independent mention and definition of the term - otherwise, all of this borders on "original research", based on fan-terminology that is used to bash the Trek series one doesn't like more often than not. In addition, the distinction between 0, 1 and many "rembering people" seems somewhat artificial to me. Also, if this is kept, it should be checked how much overlap there is with already existing episode lists like Time travel episodes, Alternate timeline episodes and Parallel universe episodes (which, by the way, all have lengthy discussions about their content as well). Last but not least, the naming of this article should be similar to those, so preferably no move to "Reset Button" as suggested. -- Cid Highwind 09:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC) I would oppose changing the title to simply "Reset Button" as well as a "Bad Dream" redirect unless there is some official use of this terminology, which is unlikely as it is more often used in a negative way(though I think Swedish Doctor is not using it that way). I have suggested "Reset timeline episode" if there is no official term.--31dot 20:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC) :::::You may delete this article, I will attend "Alterate timeline" article instead: You are absolutely right, this article discusses only a small section of what's already in the other articles, and the term "reset button" is actually most often used in a negative way, I myself love to bringing up Bobby Ewing's resurrection as the worst example there is. I'm not up for the task of making a complete table of every episode dealing with this issue, but I will happily tend to the article Alternate timeline and making it into an article describing different ways of dealing with the subject with a few examples, like "Single person time jumping: Kes jumps uncontrollably through time in Before and After, just as O'Brien does in Visionary" or "Exchange of incarnations: O'Brien is not the same incarnation in the end of Visionary as he was in the beginning of the episode, the same with Kim in Deadlock, but these exchanges evens out over time". :::::The Temporal Cold War already has an article of its own, and I have too much bad feelings about the way it's handled by the producers, I would not be able to be neutral in my writing. I will only make a link from the Alternate timeline article :::::And about what to say instead of "reset button", I think I will go with "deleted timeline". --Swedish Doctor 21:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::To my mind, this page doesn't actually describe what the "reset button" is. To me, the reset button is any instance where, overtly or otherwise, the status quo is restored and any long-term developments are avoided or ignored. Episodes like Time and Afain and Year of Hell, which effectively never happened, fit into the "bad dream" category. But the reset button can occur without events being erased. For instance, in The Child Troi gives birth to a son, who conveniently "dies" before the end of the episode and is never mentioned again. In The Changeling, Uhura has her memory erased but she is back to normal by the next episode, even though the events still happened. It can even happen a few episodes later, such as in The Begotten when Odo regains his shape-shifting powers 12 episodes after he lost them, thus returning the situation to "normal". – Skteosk 16:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC) This disagreement about what the term means is exactly why this isn't the greatest idea for an article.--31dot 22:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC) Deletion rationale Fan label without a formal definition. The page's contents are also covered by other pages and duplicates them. See: Talk:Reset button episode for more details. — Morder (talk) 22:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC) Discussion *'Delete'. I agree. If this was some sort of formal term with a set definition there would be no problem, but there is no agreement about what it means.--31dot 22:18, 7 August 2009 (UTC) *'Delete'. Propably would be a nice page in Ex Astris Scientia or some other place. --Pseudohuman 23:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC) Admin resolution Deleted -Alan 00:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)